Tendencies among young r&b/gospel drummers

[jay jackson]

Hi gang.I have a question:is it just me or are cats starting to really overdo it playing wise on some of these tours?I have two deciding factors against me.1)I'm an old schooler at heart where I was taught to blend in to my surroundings and 2)I've lived in Europe for so long that maybe I'm out of touch with what's going on.

What I find the most annoying is the overuse of the hi-hats!So many 32nds and 64ths,it's like speed metal turned upside down!I think it's ok to drop in a nice fill on the hats sparsely but playing the Wilcoxon book on a gig all night is like a bass player slapping on 'Round Midnight!

The high frequency of the hats allow them to cut through without beating the stew out of them I think.

I really applaud these kids for their dedication to the craft because they've taken the time to get the chops up,but everything has a time or place.

This isn't a dis of any kind,just an observation.What do y'all think?jj

[Bruce Royal]

I look at what the music of the day's asking for pending. in the 80's, r&b was beginning to use the drum machine and drum loops, and, hip hop and rap is drum/rhythm oriented as the backbone for vocals, so in a live setting, drummer has to sound like a drum machine playing loops and what have you. So, Hip hop and rap had become a big influence on gospel as well(Remember Guy and the "New Jack Sound"?). what we're hearing the young cats do is what was started 20 years ago, and that's cool. What happens is an ancient thing, as well get older, we begin to mature and season as a musician, and we begin to submit to what's goin' on around us and play what's needed at that time. That's why it's a beautiful thing when younger musicians are around older musicians, we learn from our elders what to and what not to play. We begin to learn that there is freedom in structure that comes from the universe when we mature. For me, I've learned and still learning to have the facilities to be versitile, but play only what's necessary for that particular room, and you learn that from being 'round the elders. I hope this makes sense.

[jay jackson]

i feel you,Bruce.It's just as a listener, I find it a bit distracting when somebody goes overboard with the chops stuff while the singer is trying to get the message across to the audience.

When you go back and listen to the great pocket players,and we know who they are,the last thing they wanted to do interuppt the singer's flow.Now,I do know that today's music depends more on the hype side to get the girls screaming,and that's fine.

I was a fortunate enough to have grown up during the disco era as well the New Jack and go-go times.I wasn't referring to the grooves they're playing,just the "busyness(sic)".Maybe I'm turning into my Pops....I'm glad you answered this .You and Josh.

[Bruce Royal]

Hey Jay. I'm with you on what you're sayin'. I love it when I'm sittin' in the pockect for a couple of hours. I'm thankful that I've been fortunate to play reggae when I was back home in DC in the 80's. I learned a lot from working with a phenomenal reggae group that was there(Black Sheep), and the reggae bands and musicians I got to see and know taught me alot. RAS Records(Real Authentic Sound) is in DC(Silver Springs, MD), and the studio that most of the artists would record out of was in DC(Lion & Fox Studios), including Black Sheep. It helped me to understand that everything we as drummers play, even in odd meters, should groove and have a pocket, and the fills must groove as well.

[Josh]

I basically feel the same way . There's a time and place for everything .The song gets boring when a role is done every bar but its still cool to through them in just at the right time..

[David "Young Professor" Cowan]

I feel you. But I'm in LA and it seems to me that the artists hiring cats like that WANT their drummers to play that way. Take Aaron Spears for example. KILLIN drummer!!! The busy style that he plays is one of the things that got him on the Usher gig. Not to mention that he also has a MOST RIDICULOUS POCKET!! WHEW!! EVen in the midst of all that stuff he plays..his groove is just straight up nasty, STANK, UGLY FUNK!! Check out Gideon Band. Aaron is the drummer for them as well. But there are also other gigs where that style is less appropriate and and those artists/MD's get cats who will do what that gig requires.
Cats who are KNOWN as busy players will get certain gigs. Cats who are known to just hold the pocket will get certain other gigs.

But the busy hi-hat thing..well that's a style that's popular right now. A lot of the drum machine patterns are like that in the actual recordings. The songs are created that way. So, in some cases, these drummers are simply a reflection of what's happening in the popular music of the day.

[Bruce Royal]

When I was back home in DC in the 80's, Go-Go was the thang and still is hot an' happnin! Man, "Sugarfoot" Rick Wellman(Miles Davis, Chuck Brown) and JuJu House(E.U). These cats put down pocket for days, and would still play some wicked stuff!

[jay jackson]

See,I'm from N.C. and go go came to us from my relatives who live in MD,Bmo and DC.I still love to sit with a click and play that stuff.It's almost like the Monks who work themselves into a trance during meditation.It also feels good to play and look up and see people dancing to what you do.to me,that's the biggest reward.Dancing feet don't lie!.......

[Bruce Royal]

It's funny. Now that a number of us cats are grown, We look at some of the younger cats and say they're playin' too busy, and that's what the older cats would let us know when we were younger, and so forth. Now I see why it's important to learn and understand music history. I consider myself blessed 'cause of the drummers I got to see on a regular basis back home who were peers and mentors who were playin' different idioms and grooves. I remember seeing Blues Webb, Gorden Campbell, and Chris Dave(I remember when he started hittin' with Mint Condition) playin gospel and progressive jazz and fusion along with Greg Grainger, Dennis Chambers, Larry Bright, Scott Peka(Crusaders, George Howard) Sean Rickman, Curtis Harmon, Eric Valentine(He and I were at UDC together for a minute), Steve Gadd( He used to hit in the Army Blues, and did quite a bit of session work in DC) , Rick Wellman and JuJu hittin' Go-Go, Cactus Moses hittin' with Danny Gatton, Lenny Robinson, Keith Kilgo(Blackbirds), Greg Hutchinson, Steve Williams, Louis Bellson(He and Pearl Bailey were there, and Pearl went to Georgetown Univ.) Chuck Redd(I entered Mont. Jr. College after he left I think) Harold Summey, Charles Mourvay, Nassar Abbeday, Jimmy Cobb, Billy Hart, and a host of cats swingin', and I would see Sly Dunbar(Everyone in reggae), Ronald Grizzly Nesbitt(Steel Pulse), Carly Barrett(Bob Marley & the Wailers, Alpha Blondy), Steely & Cleevy with Roots Radics(Gregory Issacs, Israel Vibration), Drummie Zeb w/ Aswad, Nelson Rodney w/Burning Spear, and a host of other cats. The young cats today have total access to great musicians now through the internet, and get to hear and digest loads of info to learn and work with to their benefit.

[jay jackson]

Hey Bruce,speaking of Steel Pulse,is Grizzly ok?

[Bruce Royal]

The last I heard from his daughter who's in St. Augustine, Fl, when I ran into her and Moonie at a Pulse show here in J-ville last year, and I think LeRoy Kelley was in the drum chair, is that he's doin' ok, and if I heard it right, he's in St. Augustine, Fl. as well. I've heard he's been having some health issues, but I would say check with Moonie, he would know more on Grizzly's health than I would, and I wouldn't wanna put out anything non-factual. The last time I physically saw Grizzly I think was '95 back in Guam when they were doin' the Sunsplash tour. I would love to see Grizzly again, I learned a lot from watchin' and listenin' to him hit.

[jay jackson]

Thanks for the info,Bruce.I don't think I've ever hear a straighter beat that Grizzly's,reggae or otherwise.I did hear that his father passed away,though.

[jay jackson]

Btw,are you hip to Morgan Heritage?Bad reggae band!