Tendencies among young r&b/gospel drummers

[jay jackson]

Hi gang.I have a question:is it just me or are cats starting to really overdo it playing wise on some of these tours?I have two deciding factors against me.1)I'm an old schooler at heart where I was taught to blend in to my surroundings and 2)I've lived in Europe for so long that maybe I'm out of touch with what's going on.

What I find the most annoying is the overuse of the hi-hats!So many 32nds and 64ths,it's like speed metal turned upside down!I think it's ok to drop in a nice fill on the hats sparsely but playing the Wilcoxon book on a gig all night is like a bass player slapping on 'Round Midnight!

The high frequency of the hats allow them to cut through without beating the stew out of them I think.

I really applaud these kids for their dedication to the craft because they've taken the time to get the chops up,but everything has a time or place.

This isn't a dis of any kind,just an observation.What do y'all think?jj

[Greg "suave" brown]

yeah your right, its nice her in vegas

[Adam Guth]

This is a fantastic discussion! Thanks for all the thoughtfulness.

I think this is a reflection of our popular culture at large. Everything has to be bigger, flashier. This is what gets noticed and applauded. This is where the money is. It is no wonder that young people coming up put their chops on display every chance they get because that is what is relentlessly, positively reinforced. How do we impart the idea that restraint and taste are to be strived for when every message coming off the TV, the 'net, and the people around us, is to the contrary? It is very insidious, even subliminal, and no one is immune. I applaud the kids who work hard at music and bring their facility up to a certain level. Let's offer the same positive reinforcement for the pocket that we do for the chops. Next time you hear a kid laying it down, holla just like you would for the sickest fill on earth. Kids are sponges. They take everything in. Positive message = progress.

Thanks Guys

[jay jackson]

Hey Adam.That's exactly the point I was driving home with this.I have students who should be focused on the basics like addressing the kit and posture, but instead they want to jump right to the John Blackwell stuff.

The message is,everything has a place and time.If you force things where they don't belong,they sound strange.Welcome to our little discussion!

[poogie bell]

Well I think youre right...........there's nothing wrong with having crazy chops or just playing pocket........
the trick is and always been how to use you're chops or pocket or what ever it is you do... to be able to use you're drums to make the music sound good! there are a lot of guy's who play the drums great......but dont have a clue when it comes to making music with them......
play the music not the drums.........or at least try.......if you get a solo use those chops!!!
the rest of the time make the band groove......play the music.......cause if you do?....... it will rain down gig's on you!......
Peace
Poogie Bell
DrumNetWork

[Greg "suave" brown]

yeah some of those guys do have pocket, i dont go to church that much, i loged on gospel chops, i got a headache after 5 min no grooves.

[Don Thomas]

I was just going over this thread again after a couple of years. Some very insightful input from you all. And the best part is it remained civilized. Great topic and a very stimulating form of discussion.

Thank you, Poogie for your knowledgeable and priceless input. I wish MORE drummers would see this.

The way it should be done, gents.... Hats off to all of you!

Don.

[Trevalyn Rivers,Jr]

I totally agree! I've been bashing my head listening to gospel chops video s and I cant for once understand where the groove went. I too am from the old school and maybe I fell asleep for a few years and missed a lot of new fills that distinguish these cats as "gospel chops" drummers. There is definitely a distinct sound that lets you know that the drummer ,whomever it may be at the time. is a gospel drummer.I came up in the 70's playing to tunes like Romantic Warrior (RTF) or
Al Di Meola's Elegant Gypsy CD,billy Cobham's Stratus. Fusion was where it was at back then even the funk stuff with Cameo etc,etc was cool. I admire these guys a lot and I even try to emulate their chops but I'm still stuck in the groove mode with an occasional fill. These guys have created a whole new genre and it has to do with who has the best "gospel chops".

[Don Thomas]

Hey, Trevalyn,

A whole lot of players could stand to be more groove orientated within their playing. It's among the things that makes any style of music speak as a language. Conversations go well when only one person speaks and others listen, and then the next person speaks and so on.... Music works with the basic same thought plan in that all the sounds must work together to create one voice. Many of these younger players miss this.

It's like the hog on the basketball court, this one guy may be the greatest player out there but his side never wins because he's not a team player. He never passes to the open guy and when he gets his hands on the ball, he takes ALL the shots. He has no regard for his teammates... It's ALL about him and this is what I see and hear with many of these younger drummers. Of course I wouldn't begin to tag every gospel and hip hop drummer with this but there is definitely a trend on the move here along with this sort of backward way of thinking. We need a better form of education within this art form.